Hulk vs. Thing (female edition)

Although I've thoroughly documented the long, contentious history between the Hulk and the Thing, this week of momentous female achievement (Go Palin!) naturally demands some coverage for their female counterparts!

In this corner is the She-Hulk, gamma-mutated cousin of Bruce Banner sporting an enormous 80's hairdo and an outfit straight out of Flashdance.

In the other corner is Sharon Ventura, a former professional wrestler who gained superpowers and became the second Ms. Marvel. Soon after joining the Fantastic Four, exposure to cosmic rays mutated Sharon into a creature similar in strength and rocky appearance to the Thing...thereby earning the nickname of (you guessed it) "She-Thing".

Following one of the 4,374 fights between the Hulk and the Thing, a ticked-off She-Thing wants the Hulk's hide for hurting her guy, and she demands that She-Hulk take her to him.

How did that rather pushy tactic go over with the She-Hulk? Click on the (slightly truncated) fight scene from Fantastic Four #321 (1988) to find out.

Happily, following their brief but brutal cat-fight, the feminine propensity for constructive conflict resolution wins the day.

Comments

[Pj]

Mark -- you should totally re-post next Friday this female superhero battle for inclusion in Bahlactus' latest round of battles, "Ladies Night": www.bahlactus.com

You know you want to.

[Mark Engblom]

Well, funny you should mention Friday Night Fights, since that's what the post was originally meant to tie into...but no sooner had I completed the post than I saw Bahlactus' announcement that he was canceling this week's edition.

Rather than starting from scratch and tossing away the time I spent creating it, I just rewrote some copy, added the Palin reference (since it's something I'm genuinely excited about) and decided to post it, regardless of Bahlactus' schedule.

[Kyle]

Cat-fight! Cat-fight! Ca... waitaminit. Talk it out?!?

Jeez, just ruin a guy's Friday, why dontcha!

[Z Ryan]

It's hard to get into cat-fight enthusiasm when one of the combatants is She-Thing.

[Brian]

As Mark does his best to needle his Democratic fans with Palin shout-outs...(: I do have some McCain/She-Thing jokes up my sleeve, but since I like you too much to use them, I'll ask the more innocuous question: is it nice to have your state back after all that conventioneering last week?

[Mark. Engblom]

"... is it nice to have your state back after all that conventioneering last week?"

Ah, I thought it was great to have the convention here...though considering my political leanings, that's probably not a big surprise.

I could have done without so much local coverage of the anarchist maggots causing pockets of trouble, but I guess that's just the way most of the press corps are wired. I get the feeling many of them were disappointed there wasn't more violence, but thanks to the St. Paul cops, the violent minority of otherwise peaceful demonstrators weren't allowed to grab the spotlight away from a remarkable convention.

[Pat Curley]

Mark, I try to keep the politics out of Silver Age Comics, but I will admit that I'm thrilled with the nomination of Sarah Palin.

[Brian]

Mark,
It's your blog, of course, to do with as you wish, but as a fan (a HUGE fan, actually-- I was looking in your archives, trying to find a post I remembered, and constantly found myself distracted by other posts, funny jokes, great recommendations, and other kinds of Engblom goodness), could I make a request? Would you mind keeping CC politics-free? I know that our beliefs always shape what we write-- that stuff we believe and desire is maybe always going to be present in one way or another. But honestly, whatever our feelings about the election, coming across references to it here is a little disconcerting. This feels like a space of fun and non-partisan fandom, and I'd like to be able to discuss comics and comics-related material in that spirit, without feeling like we have to argue or stand up for positions that are maybe best left to other spaces.

As I said, I know this might be presumptuous of me (and I certainly talk about politics on my blog, so I can't really blame you for wanting to do it on yours). Please just consider it a humble request from someone who admires you a great deal, and would much rather talk Superman than Palin.

[Mark Engblom]

Politics are only glancingly referred to here on Comic Coverage, and the political comments that do show up I consider to be just a tiny bit of balance in a sea of liberal/libertine-skewing comic blogs.

So...sorry, Brian...but you'll just have to apply some of that legendary liberal tolerance and endure the occasional political jibe or inference here on Comic Coverage. And really...there aren't that many overt political cracks and comments I make on this site...so I guess I'm a little puzzled about where your request is coming from, or what specifically troubles you. In the case of this post, the only political element was a brief mention of Sarah Palin...which (to me at least) doesn't seem like an especially provacative or "baiting" kind of thing to do.

[Brian]

Politics are only glancingly referred to here on Comic Coverage, and the political comments that do show up I consider to be just a tiny bit of balance in a sea of liberal/libertine-skewing comic blogs.

So...sorry, Brian...but you'll just have to apply some of that legendary liberal tolerance and endure the occasional political jibe or inference here on Comic Coverage. And really...there aren't that many overt political cracks and comments I make on this site...so I guess I'm a little puzzled about where your request is coming from, or what specifically troubles you. In the case of this post, the only political element was a brief mention of Sarah Palin...which (to me at least) doesn't seem like an especially provacative or "baiting" kind of thing to do.

Fair enough. I think I've opened a hornet's nest, stepped into a pile of something, or whatever imagery you prefer, that I really didn't mean to. And I would like to quickly get out of it, but think I owe you an explanation, as you very quickly and kindly responded to my remark.

First, let me apologize if I offended you, either with that comment, or with my earlier remark about "baiting your Democratic readers." The latter was said in jest, and meant to be teasing in an affectionate way, although it may not have come out that way; the former was more serious, but certainly not intended as a criticism or commentary on your outstanding blog, which (I really can't say it enough) I completely love. As you say, whatever politics are here get lightly touched upon, spun in a humorous fashion, or are generally presented in a more non-partisan, "values" sort of manner (i.e., patriotism, community, etc.-- concepts that no one party or ideology has the monopoly on).

Second, let me clearly state that, in no way, did I mean to step on your freedom of speech. I think I would describe a lot of comics blogs as more "libertarian" than "liberal," but I certainly want a range of values, beliefs, and approaches to thrive in the blogosphere (from what little politics has come up here, I suspect you and I couldn't be more different in our political views, but we share a common love of superheroes, and I think that's what counts). My request stemmed from a certain nervousness/anxiety about some of the stuff that came up in the comments section, and perhaps I jumped the gun too much in my request-- I think it's a common middle-child thing to want to pre-empt conflict and argument. (:

You are a superb writer and artist, but even if you weren't-- even if I thought you were completely offensive, which I certainly DON'T-- I would always want to defend your right to be whoever you were.

Election years do strange things to people, and I suppose the constant coverage has left me overly sensitive to this stuff, and I see your blog as an escape from all that craziness (much like the comics that we both love). Again, I apologize if you feel I, in any way, misinterpreted or misunderstood your meaning, and I deeply apologize if I insulted you. The last thing I would ever want to do is offend someone whose work has brought me so much pleasure and insight.I hope this subsequent post doesn't make things worse. I won't be saying any more about it or bothering you about this, but my tremendous respect for you meant that I didn't want your thoughtful response/implied questions to go unanswered.

Best of luck, and thanks again for a fantastic blog!

[Mark Engblom]

"First, let me apologize if I offended you..."

No, you didn't offend me. I've got a tougher skin than that. However, you did mystify me.

"As you say, whatever politics are here get lightly touched upon, spun in a humorous fashion, or are generally presented in a more non-partisan, "values" sort of manner (i.e., patriotism, community, etc.-- concepts that no one party or ideology has the monopoly on..."

That's what I strive for here on Comic Coverage.

"Second, let me clearly state that, in no way, did I mean to step on your freedom of speech."

Rest assured, I never for a second thought you were. However, this is a distinction I think is important to make: registering disappointment or disagreeing with a sentiment is in no way limiting free speech. I don't take your discomfort with the occasional conservative message to be an attack on my free speech rights. Disagreement is just part of a healthy, free culture exchanging viewpoints...that's all.

"...from what little politics has come up here, I suspect you and I couldn't be more different in our political views, but we share a common love of superheroes, and I think that's what counts..."

If only the rest of the world could find common ground with superheroes. "The Healing Power of the Superhero", so to speak.

"My request stemmed from a certain nervousness/anxiety about some of the stuff that came up in the comments section..."

The only thing in the comments section I could see giving you pause would be my comment about "anarchist maggots", am I right? Well, if you read the passage again, I tried to make it clear I was separating the "otherwise peaceful demonstrators" from the small (but dangerous) minority who were self-identified anarchists there to stir up trouble. Believe me, these people deserve the "maggot" moniker considering the damage and danger they brought to the streets of St. Paul.

Also, let me add that my thoughts on the St. Paul situation came after you yourself asked me my opinion on it...so, again, I'm a little mystified by your "nervousness/anxiety" over the political angle.

"You are a superb writer and artist, but even if you weren't-- even if I thought you were completely offensive, which I certainly DON'T-- I would always want to defend your right to be whoever you were."

Ummm...okay. But at the same time you posted a request for me to tone it down? Again...mystified.

" Again, I apologize if you feel I, in any way, misinterpreted or misunderstood your meaning, and I deeply apologize if I insulted you."

Don't worry about it, Brian. Like you said, election years make people a little jumpy...so I won't lose any sleep over it. You're a valued reader and friend, and it would take alot more than this to endanger that reality.

"Best of luck, and thanks again for a fantastic blog!"

...and thank YOU for reading it! I'd have turned out the lights long ago if it wasn't for readers like you!

[Brian]

Thanks, Mark.

[Kid NOVA]

GREAT stuff! I had this issue as a kid and it struck a chord with me. I thought the art was great and, looking back, it's still got a lot going for it. It's Ron Lim, right? He got worse... I've been trying to find this issue over the past few weeks so many thanks for posting these scenes. :)